Apple fans have been known for decades from being unwaveringly loyal to their brand of choice. Hardcore Android fans are obviously just as bad these days, but they don’t have the same long history that Apple fans do. After all, Android has only been around for 9 years while Apple was founded in the late 1970s. The Apple vs. Microsoft war was one of the first wide scale fanboy battles, and that has since transformed into an Apple vs. Google war. Throughout it all, hardcore Apple fans have remained outspoken and loyal, often unwilling to acknowledge any positive characteristics of rival products.

Of course, not every Apple fan is an Apple fanboy. While fanboys will typically only admit to flaws in Apple’s strategies and products if they have first been acknowledged by popular Apple bloggers, normal Apple fans know that nothing is perfect. Like every other company in the world, Apple does some things well and other things poorly. The company’s flagship product, the iPhone, has plenty of strengths as well as a number of big weaknesses. This might all seem like common sense to any rational person, but fanboys are anything but rational.

With all that in mind, let’s take a look at some of the things that normal, rational Apple fans dislike about the company.

In a thread on Reddit titled simply “What do you dislike about Apple?” users in the Apple subreddit chatted about the things they dislike most about Apple. Users in this section on Reddit are almost all Apple fans, of course, but it’s always interesting to vent a bit and see if other Apple fans share your opinions about areas where you believe Apple can improve.

At the time of this writing there were 493 comments in the thread, which is obviously quite a lot. Among all the comments that began threads within the post, the top-rated comment is this: “I’m not a fan of how long it takes for certain things to catch up, like how there still is not [a] 1st party weather app for the iPad, or how Siri is getting further behind Alexa or Google.” It’s no surprise that any complaint that mentions Siri would attract plenty of up-votes since it’s an area where Apple continues to lag so far behind its rivals.

The second most popular comment in the post had nearly as many up-votes at the time of this writing. “Their apparent inability to differentiate design priorities across different product lines,” Reddit user DAllenJ wrote. “Thin/light/quiet makes sense for tablets and consumer laptops, but makes no sense for a desktop workstation. If computers are trucks, and if I need a truck, don’t try to sell me a scooter while telling me it’s a truck.” This is obviously another terrific point. Apple uses excessive amounts of hyperbole in all of its press conferences and marketing, so when its computers can’t live up to the bold claims Apple makes on stage or in its marketing, users grow frustrated that so much effort is put into form over function.

The entire post makes for a very interesting read, and you’ll find it right here on Reddit.

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