It’s no mystery that the hackers behind notorious “hacktivist” groups Anonymous and LulzSec cause a tremendous amount of trouble for the companies and agencies they target, but thousands of young web users cheer them on with the belief that these groups are fighting for Internet freedom around the world. According to a recent profile, however, this isn’t always the case. In a rare in-depth interview with Anonymous members, The Daily Beast’s Parmy Olson uncovers the dark side of Anonymous, likening the divide between the group’s activist members and its pranksters to Batman and the Joker. While some Anonymous members indeed look to topple oppressors, others simply “try to cause chaos, lulz, whatever to have fun.” And while many hacker activists continue to fight the good fight, as they view it, the more playful Anonymous hackers are skeptical that they will ever really make a difference. “I don’t think [Anonymous] can change much in the world,” one group member told The Daily Beast. Parmy’s full interview is linked below.