Listening to the newest episode of the Lex Fridman podcast over the weekend, in which the Russia-born host interviews Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelenskyy for almost three hours, I actually found myself amazed at what today’s podcasts have made possible. World leaders like Zelenskyy, who are otherwise busy managing the demands of wartime, are able to sit down and speak at length about war and peace — about their hopes, their enemies, and their countrymen, essentially letting you hear what they think about the state of the world that they’re influencing. Unfiltered, in a way that you just don’t get from legacy media.
Zelenskyy’s podcast chat with Fridman — who said he’s also making plans to travel to Moscow for an interview with Putin — is available to watch below. The episode should probably be required listening for American lawmakers, who’ve approved billions upon billions of dollars in aid for the embattled Russian neighbor, its prospects for victory notwithstanding. For that matter, perhaps reporters should tune in as well, since much of what’s passed for coverage about the war between Russia and Ukraine has arguably focused on The Narrative as opposed to brass tacks.
In other words, I dare say that many Americans couldn’t tell you why the war started, nor why it continues today. More to the point, I suspect that too many Americans also couldn’t tell you what’s motivating Zelenskyy and Putin, which is a shame considering the degree to which our leaders have dragged us more or less into the conflict.
Zelenskyy certainly made lots of news during Fridman’s podcast, deftly praising what he sees as President Trump’s strength and unpredictability and offering up harrowing details about what it’s been like to be on the receiving end of Russian military might. As for Fridman, I have to say that he’s now cemented his status in my mind as a sort of thinking man’s Joe Rogan. Whereas Rogan consistently books the same caliber of news-making interviewees that Fridman does, the latter isn’t as incendiary and also has a kind of old-school approach to his interviewing style.
Fridman gives his guests like Zelenskyy plenty of space to talk and, when he does push back or offer a contradictory thought, he almost always does so in a non-confrontational or judgmental way. That style, coupled with Fridman’s scientific and philosophical background, makes his show a rare place for nuanced conversations — even in a time of war.
Listening to his podcast, you’re struck by another thought: It’s clear that we would probably all be better served by normalizing the practice of newsmakers sitting down for multi-hour, one-on-one conversations like this one. No holds barred, without notes, which is the sort of thing that separates interviewees who only know how to spout mindless pablum and pre-crafted talking points from those who have something to say that’s worth listening to. To do that, though, it goes without saying that you’ve first got to know what you believe and have core values that you can articulate. Not exactly the stuff that sound bites are made of.
