Microsoft continues to profit off Android

DROID OS for the win. I love how my DROID Bionic is going to run DROID OS 2.3!!!

lmao im already runing 2.3.5 and would switch to 2.3.6 but why lose tethering

This is my one daily allowance of jumping into this stupid fray:

There’s a difference between not knowing the difference in how a phone is branded and not understanding whether a phone is using a given technology or not.

It was not an attack on specific group of users (Android) it was just the quickest example that came to mind.  I was not focusing on the brand… The focus was the last fours words. What is an OS?

Terms like 4G & OS really don’t mean crap outside of tech community.

I agree 100% with cliqsquad below.  And like him, I would say anally retentive.

Indeed.  Some other pet peeves:  some people say “Aspirin”, “Zipper” and “Escalator” when they are not even referring to the brands!  I say “acetylsalicylic acid”, “zip fastener” and “moving staircase.”  It really irritates me when people refer to an Escalator, and it’s not an Escalator brand moving staircase.

Ummmmm…none of those are brand names.  Bayer wasn’t given the brand name Aspirin because the term was already widely in use when they tried to reserve it.  Escalator isn’t a brand of “moving staircase” company and the term zipper, first used by B.F. Goodrich was never trademarked by them or anyone else.

@fcwilli:disqus  I think you rather missed the point, I’ll spell it out:

Aspirin is a trademark owned by Bayer in many countries, denied in the US for the reasons you state.
Escalator was a trademark of Otis, lost mid-century due to its common use.
Zipper was a trademark of Goodrich, also lost (for the most part) due to its eventual use as a general term.

Notice a trend?  Language evolves, and words go into common usage.  Droid will be one of those words.

Really Dude? Holy crap, you must have some serious high blood pressure issues if that’s all it takes to get you hacked off. Relax, enjoy life a little. So what if someone goes to the Minolta copier and says, nice “Xerox Machine”. You are not going to chance them or how they say it.

I say escalator because I just didn’t know any better. On second thought, I think people would think I was a little “Off” if I walked through the mall and started saying “Let’s use the moving staircase”. Seriously? You say that? If you said that to me, I would think you were from another land (to say the least).

No offense, just saying, it’s all about what you are used to hearing. Sometimes the “right” way to speak is the way that people will understand you, regardless of what’s proper or correct. You wouldn’t go into a class of kindergarden students and start using big words they don’t understand. So, why use words and phrases that the majority of the universe will not understand or get without further explanation?

No, not really. It was intended to show how ridiculous it is to chastise people for saying “Droid” instead of “Android”.

A difference is that 4G Android phones exist…

What exactly is your point? That has nothing to do with the OP. He’s questioning the intelligence of iPhone users which is odd because, in almost every survey, the iPhone owner is more educated and makes more money than the Android user. 

quietstorms: His point is that he’s trolling (actually just bad mouthing) Apple users on an Android article that has nothing to do with Apple users (maybe the company itself).

I’d politely ask all Fandroids to stop pretending Apple users treat Apple as a religion, just like Fandroids treat Google/Android. Actually, we buy Apple stuff because we *like* them. It’s not like we’re refusing to buy Android phones, like you people do.

It’s funny how people criticize Apple fans for being “sheep” while most Fandroids buy their phones simply because they’re “NOT APPLE” and ****boast***** about it everywhere.

Except Android users can possibly actually own a 4G phone. So until we get a breakdown of how many of them do, maybe they were all right. Or maybe even just 10-15%. Either way, that would make a number that is statistically significantly lower than 34% even lower. 

and exactly what survey are you talking about please show proof to backup your claim.

Go check out the Hunch survey as an example.

If you want to get technical, its 5g.

1 – iPhone
2 – iPhone 3G
3 – iPhone 3GS
4 – ???
5 – iPhone 4

Can you fill in the blank please?

Seeing as almost all consumers who buy things are not super tech savvy…

hahahah stupid fag

And you’re the one saying “fandroid loser”, iDiot

Think that is starting to change…keep your eyes out on the new tablet demos from Samsung and others, they used to demo new kit on Android, but these are all running Windows 8…..Look at phones too, HTC Titan for example, running WP7…

think things are changing…As HTC or Samsung, why should I pay Microsoft to use Android, when I could probably use WP7 and it cost me less in the bigger picture…I think they are waiting for market place to grow and start to compete with the Apple App Store….

Essentially the mobile market is in limbo, with all the big names fighting for market share. Its good for the consumer!

Actually its cheaper for android phones even with the royalties. Oh and Windows 8 will kill the ipad, not android (in general, tablets maybe will die)

Actually, it’s “disqusting”. Get it? Because we’re using Disqus. Heh.

But has any of those (Microsoft’s) patents stood up in courts? No, because MS goes out of their way to show its “accidental” licensors that it cots way less to pay them now then to have a court case. If at any time one of these things goes to trial and MS wins be sure they’ll jack-up the license fees. If they don’t win, be sure they have a cluase in their license contracts that prohibits any/most hostile actions from its victims. Kinda like those RIAA “affiliated” law firms that try to put 5000 infringers in one case or send a threating legalese letter demanding 2000$. They don’t care about the actual IP, they want the most money using as little costly legals proceedings as possible.

Actually, the so-called “FAT patent” has survived re-examination several times in the US and stood up in court in Germany.

I do not what your talking about…. That is why companies have legal teams. Microsoft will win in court and impose a greater fee but acer for example decided to pay and not get in a legal battle and lose at the end. It’s a win-win for Microsoft. HTC, Acer, viewsonic, and other android companies pays MS because they infringe on their patents. Samsung and Moto are next on the list. Microsoft spends the most $$$$ in  the industry in R&D so they are not just going to let other companies steal their technology. You steal, you pay for your mistake. I am sure you would do the same if somebody stole your idea that you have invented. 

” I am sure you would do the same if somebody stole your idea that you have invented.”

Maybe that’s Microsoft problem: they think they have invented everything, even linux. Therefore sued others with disproportionate licensing fees.

If I invent something I would like being able to make money out of it and not having others stealing my invention because their patents says so.

Again, as long as they ask a fee, like more then a dollar per handset, I think linux should sue Microsoft. (Too bad Linux didn’t patented the user system, here goes Win 7…)

Microsoft have no word at all, they said they want to help android OEMs to defend against lawsuits once they buyed into the agreement. Bullshit, it’s google which is helping HTC right now.

It’s just about being big and mean: give me your lunch money or I beat the crap out of you.

I’m eager to see what coming next, because they will have no remorse in robbing Microsoft when they will have the upper hand.

Seriously, Microsoft is doing what they should be doing – they’re licensing. If somebody wants to use your patent, you either grant them a license or you don’t.

Microsoft granted licenses, gets money, Apple didn’t grant license, files a lawsuit. Simple as that.

Now you tell me, what should Microsoft/Apple/Oracle/Everyone do? Give away the patents? Please, don’t make me laugh.

Fandroids have such a sense of self-entitlement that it’s funny, you people think your favourite brand deserves special treatment and changes on the law just to accomodate your favourite brand.

I understand the principle but that should stay into reasonable terms. I mean, how can they license android for $5 if their own OS is about $20?

I completely agree with relative coding licenses, that is, let’s get real, a really low level, android is linux guys…

Let’s say they copied 5%, they deserve $1 per handset, which is, I feel, an overestimate, again.

They really gotta be carefull when targeting smaller buisness or being in a position like this. Otherwise you can expect people to draw targets on Microsoft.

Yea they are helping them. They can easily ban their sells and hurt their profits like apple is doing but they decided to license it. There is a reason why android is for free, because most of it is stolen from microsoft, apple and oracle. Btw google aint doing shit for the android vendors that is why htc, acer, view sonic and other companies have to pay Microsoft.That is why samsung sales in Europe is banned because android infringes on apple tech and google is just sitting back and not doing shit about it because they know that they stole the technology from others.   

How can we steal stuff from microsoft, or even apple, it is closed source, right?

I can’t believe you are actually believing android is mostly stolen stuff, android is linux man. Why would microsoft have patents on GNU/linux ?

I admit cellphones look a lot like apple stuff but again, you can’t license a patent that says (Actually you can, but thats another story): “my car has 4 doors and 4 wheels, you cant make one like that”

I’m not saying either that Apple is in dire need of help because of the copycats… being the first company in market cap in the world.

HTC using patents obtained from google.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/htc-sues-apple-alleging-infringement-of-four-u-s-patents.html

Google helping by…Thats right selling Patents to HTC. I dont call that helping, I call that making money…

People need to get in the real world, all these companies need to make money otherwise they go bust. Android issues are caused because they piggy backed on something and tried to get away with it, and who can blame them..But they have been caught out and now have to pay up…Simple…

@05a91ce5e835fce7a723ea974f557a83:disqus : “Now you tell me, what should Microsoft/Apple/Oracle/Everyone do? Give away the patents? Please, don’t make me laugh.”
They should keep their patents where the sun doesn’t shine. That’s exactly what Sun (you know, they guys Oracle has their patents from) did, they never used their patents offensively. Not because they weren’t in their (legal) rights, but because it was beneath them.

Using Patents in this way is a cheap and sleazy way to compete. Microsoft & Apple are well aware of that. They just don’t give a damn. Sure, it benefits the companies doing it, but it hurts the entire market in the process. It’s exactly behaviour like this that fucked up the economy.

@ Andrew Smith

“Google helping by…Thats right selling Patents to HTC. I dont call that helping, I call that making money…”

Right, my aunt just sold her fridge to my brother-in-law for $20, that’s cleary a sign of greed and not linked to the fact that he was going into an appartment and that he needed a fridge.

I just call that being here as opposed being totally invisible and immaterial… just saying.

apomk2 –> The law is the law. You either license or you don’t use something that’s patentend. Android is not innovating when it uses somebody else’s code or mimics looks from other platforms.

I’ll repeat it: “Fandroids
have such a sense of self-entitlement that it’s funny, you people think
your favourite brand deserves special treatment and changes on the law
just to accomodate your favourite brand.”

HTC is doing the same thing, suing Apple so they stop selling MacBooks, and Samsung is also suing Apple. Everyone is doing it. Don’t assume there’s a good side or bad side just because “OH BUT I LIKE ANDROID, IT IS ~OPEN~ YOU SEE”. EVERYONE is suing everyone.

With somebody else’s patents or intelectual property you have two choices, you either settle on court, or you don’t and stop using.

Don’t think Android deserve special privileges just because it’s your favourite brand.

I know that Linux is an open sources and I am an android owner. If it is not stealing, then I do not know what you wanna call it. Internet is an open source too but when you use it, you have to give the source credit when it is due. You can not just claim things that are not yours.  Android vendors are making billions of $$$ based on someone else technology. Now it’s time to pay and they did so that is end of the story.  

@b80d6b61db958563b5a826ac1c8aa845:disqus

Regardings patents, software is not like others industry. Everything is simple to do and is similar. That’s why its bogus to patents code, there is hundreds of ways to write a software and every way is equal in performance and will result the same.

You can’t outright copy 2 millions lines of codes without permission of the author, but the Oracle case is more about 5000-100 lines of code, nothing a programmer can redo without even knowing the original.

Some of the code can be patented as being really innovative and critical but that’s 0.01% of existing software code, the rest is filling the blanks. That’s why its bogus to patent software, it’s mostly blanks.

The best way is the keep the source closed.

I even recall, back in time during Microsoft antitrust investigations, that some software company where using the same windows API, just not the same platform (see WINE or others windows replicas). Since Microsoft were having a monopoly and every system was using and forced to use Windows API, you were forced to deal with Microsoft or with others which reproduced the Windows API, which had limited knowledge of windows kernel/engine (Some were just using, as I said another kernel, but produced the same “result”/API).

The judge ruled it was possible to reproduce the results of Windows API to avoid total monopoly. The method of Microsoft was unknown but we can easily guess it was different from others since nobody outside microsoft knew about it.

Do you even know what IP of Microsoft’s is in question? They are ridiculous things that shouldn’t have been patented in the first place. They include synchronizing email, calendars and contacts, scheduling meetings, and notifying applications of changes in signal strength and battery power. These vague and outdated patents are the problem with today’s smartphone market. People would rather sue than come out with the next best thing. We need Patent Reform really bad.

Have you read the claims of the patents in question? Do you even know what claims are? If your answer to either of these questions is “no”, please abstain from giving your opinion about those patents and the patent system in general.

Kink do you?  That’s the point.  Microsoft is forcing companies to sign an NDA before they even see the patents being brought against them.  You don’t do that if you have a strong case.

Kink I literally listed the patents in question. One I left out was Microsoft’s patent on file structure. Microsoft has a fucking patent on folders containing files.

What the hell are you talking about…. you must be out of your mind.  People would rather sue than come out with the next best thing. They are suing because  they spend time and money in Research and Development. If you invented an idea and patent it, would you give it away for free? I do not think so.  It’s not about smart phones or tablets, the idea behind it is you can not steal  from other people and claim it to be your without giving them credit. Didn’t you learn that in your English class…. That is what Google is doing, stealing ideas from microsoft, apple and other companies. 

@adfa8000765f39eb418503ee2bf26c03:disqus

“If you invented an idea and patent it, would you give it away for free?”

No, but you can’t moneytise it everytime.

Licensing software is good, but can’t always work. Every program require hardwork and even coming with the idea of putting 3 buttons can be difficult, but let’s face it, you can’t patent it no matter how hard you worked on it.

Microsoft has put a lot of money on R&D, but they can’t sue everyone to get back all the money they invested, it just can’t work that way.

Open-source, never gets the money out of licensing, but some manage to get some with differents ways.

“Microsoft has put a lot of money on R&D, but they can’t sue everyone
to get back all the money they invested, it just can’t work that way.”

That’s why they’re licensing. But Android users still think absolutely everything should cost nothing, except Google’s advertising, it seems…

@ManosGR:disqus

“That’s why they’re licensing.”

That’s what I said, you can’t sue to death or license to death in order to get all your money back from R&D.

You can’t license software innovations because they just aren’t. They are random stuff anybody could come up with again and again. Some are clear cases, but the amount of money in play is low, theses pieces of software are usually closed source.

I don’t think, obviously, everything should be open-source or free, namely google-apps or office 365 is closed source and are paid applications. The concept is wonderful.

@JasonLBauman:disqus - I am not the one calling patents “vague”, “ridiculous” and “outdated” (really, how can it be outdated if it is still being infringed?) But yes, I have read some of those patents and they are not as broad as people like Grizzly claim. And please – just because the rest of the world doesn’t get to see the license terms does not mean the licensors don’t get to either. That’s not how NDAs work. Nobody signs anything without seeing what patents are being licensed unless they are completely clueless. The companies licensing MS patents know exactly which patents they are paying for.

@twitter-133878082:disqus - You are listing patent titles. Patent titles mean about as much as the URL on this article. It’s the *claims* that are everything. Please, read the claims, understand what they, what they cover, and then form an opinion.

Algorithms are complex mathematical equations, whomever comes up with the best one should be awarded a patent for their efforts. AdSense is a business not an idea, you are clearly a moron. Microsoft’s patents are on vague things that can be interpreted anyway they please.

What I wrote applies to everyone. Not only MS, but google, oracle, apple, etc too.

 No wait, let me rephrase that!!! The absurdity of Apple/Microsoft/Oracle patents should stop…

The beautiful Google patents should be kept

(including bogus patents we… I mean… them, Google, bought!!!!)

I think that if I worked on a product that did not exist (invention) then nobody should make a similar product without a compensation.
But if someone implemented an idea that I used on my invention to invent something else, then that would be OK.
Any program uses plenty of algorithms. Implementing the same algorithms along with others and in different combinations to develop something else, then that is OK.
I think that any violation charge should be based on the final product.
Code is the implementation of thought in writing.

These arn’t just patents over code though.  They over broad concept that define things that EVERYONE in the industry uses.

HTC is still making Android phones so I would say they are still getting paid just fine. 

I’m pretty sure manufacturers are making money off of the hardware they are selling, or else they wouldn’t be selling them.

Like HP? Biggest market share globally in PC sales and making 5% margins. Selling a product doesn’t mean it’s profitable.

HTC is showing good selling margins now, but that is before they began paying Microsoft. If google loses its suit with Oracle that would be another $35 per handset. At that point, HTC is giving up a picture of US Grant for every handset manufactured and “free” Android costs more than Mango per handset.

That’s why Microsoft is being so low-key with these manufacturers, since they may well come to MS for a more profitable OS in the next 12 months.

Another $35 per handset, I don’t recall having seen a number that high. The judge said himself (herself ?, arrrg I can’t remember) numbers asked are not reasonables (either $0 or $6 billion), in line with a fee for each handset like $20.

@yahoo-QCZ3CBYASWA3FLYCZCOCLSSM2Q:disqus : The damages would be retroactive to the first violating Android phone–note, this isn’t a lawsuit against a manufacturer, but against Google’s work on Android itself. By the time the past damages are calculated, the monies owed to Oracle are estimated to be about $35 per handset.
But even at $20, that plus the Microsoft royalties would make Windows 7 mobile more inexpensive.

You obviously missed HTC’s record breaking profits quarter after quarter (or samsungs mobile profits). Android is making them a TON of money.

Hence the lawsuits (The reason why the linux foundation hasn’t been sued yet).

Yep, and they weren’t paying MS then, either. Wait until Oracle demands payment for Google’s use of Java in Android without paying for it and those record profits on Android will be known as the good old days.

Google just bought patents from IBM regarding… database and servers! They are ready for an agreement with Oracle and I don’t expect them to be slowed by that much.

Samsung mobile’s profits are nothing special for the volume they are shipping – they are buying market share at the expense of profit

Appreciate the response GAGAGAGAAA, but it doesn’t really answer my question. I’m an Android user and I don’t really care about these licensing agreements. How do they affect me as a consumer? How do they help WP7 compete against Android (especially if Android OEMs like HTC and Samsung are recording record profits despite such licensing agreements)? Certainly, such agreements pad Microsoft’s pockets — and please shareholders — but do they enhance WP7′s position from a consumer perspective? I argue that such agreements actually give Microsoft a disincentive to push WP7. So again I ask, what is Microsoft really trying to accomplish with WP7 when they actually stand to profit from Android’s continued growth?

Exactly. Android is about destroying software as a method of earning money and reducing phone makers to hardware commodity makers.